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	<title>Comments on: What are we doing?</title>
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	<link>http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/</link>
	<description>It's pretty fun if you say it fast</description>
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		<title>By: &#8220;What are we doing?&#8221; recap… at The Todd Blog</title>
		<link>http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;What are we doing?&#8221; recap… at The Todd Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/#comment-193</guid>
		<description>[...] for your responses on the previous post. It has helped fuel this blog-series I’m attempting to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] for your responses on the previous post. It has helped fuel this blog-series I’m attempting to […]</p>
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		<title>By: Darin</title>
		<link>http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Darin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 19:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/#comment-192</guid>
		<description>habit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>habit.</p>
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		<title>By: Becky</title>
		<link>http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>Becky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/#comment-191</guid>
		<description>I just read this book that sort of shook up my perspective on church and what it really should look like. 

It&#039;s called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Under-Overpass-Journey-Streets-America/dp/1590524020/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-6521854-8159258?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1190389199&amp;sr=8-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Under the Overpass&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;m really wrestling right now with what seems like a huge chasm between what the U.S. church is and what it should be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read this book that sort of shook up my perspective on church and what it really should look like. </p>
<p>It’s called <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Under-Overpass-Journey-Streets-America/dp/1590524020/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-6521854-8159258?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1190389199&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow"> Under the Overpass</a>.</p>
<p>I’m really wrestling right now with what seems like a huge chasm between what the U.S. church is and what it should be.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/#comment-190</guid>
		<description>I wish I knew the answer. I do it because I can see Christ &amp; glean new insights into how the kingdom of Heaven is advancing. I don&#039;t always like or agree with what I see at my church, but its the best I&#039;ve found &amp; I really can&#039;t complain if I&#039;m not willing to get involved &amp; &quot;be the change I&#039;d like to see.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish I knew the answer. I do it because I can see Christ &amp; glean new insights into how the kingdom of Heaven is advancing. I don’t always like or agree with what I see at my church, but its the best I’ve found &amp; I really can’t complain if I’m not willing to get involved &amp; “be the change I’d like to see.”</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Reinhardt</title>
		<link>http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Reinhardt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/#comment-189</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad you brought that up, too. 

Because frankly I don&#039;t go to church, precisely because of the reasons Kim mentioned. A sense of obligation, habit, (often somewhat forced) relationships with people we wouldn&#039;t want to spend time with otherwise, obedience (to whom?), to participate in a kind of worship that often seems devoid of any content (but full of jargon we don&#039;t understand ourselves... &quot;grace&quot;, anyone... or &quot;forgiveness&quot;?), to get on the right track (by listening to a sermon by someone whose authority to speak on the matter is what, exactly?)... those things don&#039;t smack of the holy presence of Jesus in the kind of yearning, intense way that He seems to ask of us. In evangelical circles especially, I think church has become a social club/pep rally/sense-of-righteousness-injection moment for nice people who want a sense of community and who want to be told that their opinions are correct. And getting away from the Sunday-Wednesday-pew model doesn&#039;t change that basic failure.

So that&#039;s a blanket statement, yes, and it&#039;s unfair. But I&#039;d like those who wish to change that to come out and say what they mean, exactly, when they talk of things like &quot;celebration&quot; (apart from what happens in all self-help groups where the members share how they&#039;ve been &quot;touched&quot; by whatever&#039;s important to them and everybody else nods affirmingly and sometimes they cry), by &quot;expressing the overflow of days&quot; (apart from the slightly embarrassing &quot;I am so thankful&quot;-confessions we affirm our sentimentalities with in small groups with about as much spiritual depth as a Hallmark card), or by &quot;meeting Jesus&quot; (except by making him in our image of an ornery nice guy and then ourselves being nice guys to each other and then hoping that means we&#039;re holy).

How&#039;s that for playing devil&#039;s advocate? (For those of you who don&#039;t know me, btw, I&#039;m not really that down on the church. I say this like I do because I think we tend to evade the question by falling back either on change as a virtue in itself, or on holy talk, or on justifying what we do by the pleasant emotions we feel while we do it, such as a sense of belonging or a sense of purpose or a sense of acceptance or a sense of joy... those can be had in hundreds of ways other than church.)

Have at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m glad you brought that up, too. </p>
<p>Because frankly I don’t go to church, precisely because of the reasons Kim mentioned. A sense of obligation, habit, (often somewhat forced) relationships with people we wouldn’t want to spend time with otherwise, obedience (to whom?), to participate in a kind of worship that often seems devoid of any content (but full of jargon we don’t understand ourselves… “grace”, anyone… or “forgiveness”?), to get on the right track (by listening to a sermon by someone whose authority to speak on the matter is what, exactly?)… those things don’t smack of the holy presence of Jesus in the kind of yearning, intense way that He seems to ask of us. In evangelical circles especially, I think church has become a social club/pep rally/sense-of-righteousness-injection moment for nice people who want a sense of community and who want to be told that their opinions are correct. And getting away from the Sunday-Wednesday-pew model doesn’t change that basic failure.</p>
<p>So that’s a blanket statement, yes, and it’s unfair. But I’d like those who wish to change that to come out and say what they mean, exactly, when they talk of things like “celebration” (apart from what happens in all self-help groups where the members share how they’ve been “touched” by whatever’s important to them and everybody else nods affirmingly and sometimes they cry), by “expressing the overflow of days” (apart from the slightly embarrassing “I am so thankful”-confessions we affirm our sentimentalities with in small groups with about as much spiritual depth as a Hallmark card), or by “meeting Jesus” (except by making him in our image of an ornery nice guy and then ourselves being nice guys to each other and then hoping that means we’re holy).</p>
<p>How’s that for playing devil’s advocate? (For those of you who don’t know me, btw, I’m not really that down on the church. I say this like I do because I think we tend to evade the question by falling back either on change as a virtue in itself, or on holy talk, or on justifying what we do by the pleasant emotions we feel while we do it, such as a sense of belonging or a sense of purpose or a sense of acceptance or a sense of joy… those can be had in hundreds of ways other than church.)</p>
<p>Have at it.</p>
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		<title>By: kristin</title>
		<link>http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>kristin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/#comment-188</guid>
		<description>Its so interesting that you ask this today because I have thought a lot this week about meeting and why and all that where it partains to &quot;my&quot; church - which is a home church that meets in my house on Thurs nights, etc.
The new Caedmons Call cd came out last week or the week before last. There is a song on it (# 3 or 4) called &quot;Expectations.&quot; One line says something about tall steeples being an expensive advertisment for something cheap - not across the board, mind you...but just for the guy in particular that the song is about.
I got to thinking about that. If the &quot;something&quot; is cheap then its not Gods fault. Its not because of his set-up. Its not because he really offers something cheap. What he offers was/is expensive. It cost blood...and lives (in more ways than one). 
I thought to myself, &quot;I dont want any part of who our gathering is or what we are about to be only an expensive advertisment for something that turns out to be cheap.&quot;
So, what do we offer? (And, yes, whether or not that advertisy/consumeristic language turns you off or not, God does offer something). How do we, as a small church, answer Jesus? What comes first and what flows from that?
Our existance has nothing to do with trying not to be like program-based churches. We are not a reaction. We look the way we do because for me (and for more than probably just me) it means there is less &quot;crap&quot; to wade through in order to meet Jesus...in order to experience God any time we meet. There isnt a rigid schedule or time alotment for this or that, for example. There are other reasons we look the way we do but I think this is one of them.
We dont EXSIST for this reason...we EXSIST to be the body of Christ...to worship and to praise God...to make it all about Him. This other is just one of the reasons church looks the way it does for us right now. 
I dont know if this really answers your question...I think it does though. The way we meet and how it looks, the changes we make, etc. points toward what we think we are doing!
There is more I could write, I think...but Ill wait til your further posts on this topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its so interesting that you ask this today because I have thought a lot this week about meeting and why and all that where it partains to “my” church — which is a home church that meets in my house on Thurs nights, etc.<br />
The new Caedmons Call cd came out last week or the week before last. There is a song on it (# 3 or 4) called “Expectations.” One line says something about tall steeples being an expensive advertisment for something cheap — not across the board, mind you…but just for the guy in particular that the song is about.<br />
I got to thinking about that. If the “something” is cheap then its not Gods fault. Its not because of his set-up. Its not because he really offers something cheap. What he offers was/is expensive. It cost blood…and lives (in more ways than one).<br />
I thought to myself, “I dont want any part of who our gathering is or what we are about to be only an expensive advertisment for something that turns out to be cheap.“<br />
So, what do we offer? (And, yes, whether or not that advertisy/consumeristic language turns you off or not, God does offer something). How do we, as a small church, answer Jesus? What comes first and what flows from that?<br />
Our existance has nothing to do with trying not to be like program-based churches. We are not a reaction. We look the way we do because for me (and for more than probably just me) it means there is less “crap” to wade through in order to meet Jesus…in order to experience God any time we meet. There isnt a rigid schedule or time alotment for this or that, for example. There are other reasons we look the way we do but I think this is one of them.<br />
We dont EXSIST for this reason…we EXSIST to be the body of Christ…to worship and to praise God…to make it all about Him. This other is just one of the reasons church looks the way it does for us right now.<br />
I dont know if this really answers your question…I think it does though. The way we meet and how it looks, the changes we make, etc. points toward what we think we are doing!<br />
There is more I could write, I think…but Ill wait til your further posts on this topic.</p>
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		<title>By: kim</title>
		<link>http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/#comment-187</guid>
		<description>Say, for example, that 642 people gathered as the community of faith I am a part of.  I think there would be about 642 reasons they gathered.  Here are a few (in no particular order):
obligation
habit
relationships with people
obedience
to participate in worship
to give 
to receive
because there are cute girls (motivation hopefully specific to the adolescent male population)
to be motivated to get/stay on the right track

Why I wish our community gathered:
To celebrate what we have experienced God to do throughout the week.... to express the overflow of days lived with an awareness of and obedience to God&#039;s presence.

Honestly, I know a few people who do gather for those reasons.  And I want to be just like them when I grow up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Say, for example, that 642 people gathered as the community of faith I am a part of.  I think there would be about 642 reasons they gathered.  Here are a few (in no particular order):<br />
obligation<br />
habit<br />
relationships with people<br />
obedience<br />
to participate in worship<br />
to give<br />
to receive<br />
because there are cute girls (motivation hopefully specific to the adolescent male population)<br />
to be motivated to get/stay on the right track</p>
<p>Why I wish our community gathered:<br />
To celebrate what we have experienced God to do throughout the week.… to express the overflow of days lived with an awareness of and obedience to God’s presence.</p>
<p>Honestly, I know a few people who do gather for those reasons.  And I want to be just like them when I grow up.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam's Dad</title>
		<link>http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam's Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/#comment-186</guid>
		<description>Remember that Jesus said, &quot;Where 2 or 3 of you gather, I will be in your midst.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember that Jesus said, “Where 2 or 3 of you gather, I will be in your midst.”</p>
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		<title>By: Sam's Dad</title>
		<link>http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam's Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toddblog.net/2007/09/19/what-are-we-doing/#comment-185</guid>
		<description>&#039;cause</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>’cause</p>
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